Staying Saucy in Sausalito
The retired Queen of Kink regales our editor with lustful tales of yore.
Serena... the chameleon should be her horoscope sign. While porn devotees recognize her pictures, and many recognize her in person (as she describes in this exclusive interview), they are hard to put to actually describe her. Her hair, naturally honey blonde, has been platinum, red, black, and a multitude of shades within. Her figure has ranged from quite slim and boyish to big boobed and well rounded. She has played the All American girl type to perfection, as well as the kinkiest harlot. Serena was one star who refused to be pigeonholed or typecast. She tried everything at least once, she swore, and detailed a number of titillating adventures for our readerships delight. Her wild nights in New York, her notorious affair with Jamie Gillis, her mysterious illness, her retirement from "the business". All these areas are spread wide open for your reading pleasure.
CAV: To start things off, I should mention that I'm somewhat in awe of your reputation. Your reputation is that of "The kinkiest woman in porn".
SERENA: Oh no!
CAV: But you know that?
SERENA: Well, I have all kinds of reputations. I just know that I'm infamous. (laughter)
CAV: Is that reputation accurate? Do you deserve that reputation?
SERENA: Well, I'm a pervert, I'll tell you that up front. I'm very much a rebel. During the sixties, even though I was very young, I was very anti-establishment. And just to be in the porn field takes a certain amount of rebellion.
CAV: I agree. Why do you think I'm doing this?
SERENA: As far as being the kinkiest, I've tried just about everything possible, not always on film, but most of it. I played around heavily and found, after six years in the business, true love and a domestic scene. And I'm real happy and sort of straight again. So it was a one=way kind of period in my life, where I was real promiscuous, trying to find what I needed for my soul. It was pretty wild, for sure!
CAV: How old are you?
SERENA: Twenty-five.
CAV: Wow! That's pretty young. How long did you say you were in the business?
SERENA: Well, it's been eight years - but for the past two years I've been pretty much retired, more or less. I hope you like the pictures I've sent you - I think they're pretty interesting. It's kind of a scrapbook of things I've done over the years. Let me tell you about some of the pics I've sent you. The first ones are recent - very recent.
CAV: What do you look like now? Would we recognize you? I was just saying to someone that I was really excited about interviewing a porn legend like yourself, and he asked "What does she look like?" And I said, "Well, every photograph I've seen of her has made her look different." And that's true!
SERENA: Well, that's an interesting story in itself. I've always prided myself on being somewhat of a chameleon.
CAV: That's funny - That's what I said too!
SERENA: I think, more than anything else, that has been my secret. I don't have any gimmick, like "deep throat" or anything, but I've changed my make-up a lot, and I've had my hair a million different colors, which is terrifying for a blonde.
CAV: Is that what you are?
SERENA: I am! My pubic hair is honey blonde, and that's something I'll never change. But I've done my hair red, and really dark brunette and back again. Everyone else in the world dyes their hair from dark to blonde, but because of my profession, I had to... or I felt like I had to, make it darker - which is weird for a blonde. But I'm back to blonde now.
CAV: So, what do you look like now, besides having your natural hair color?
SERENA: Well, I started out modeling pretty young; I still had my teenage acne and baby fat. Then, I went through a period of time, when I was making films, when I was having a lot of trouble with my first marriage. I did a lot of drugs that were around the sets to keep you up during the twelve hour days. So I got real skinny for a while. Now, I'm a nice in-between. I'm real healthy. I've probably gained weight from the way my fans remember me, but I'm not in the least heavy. I've gone on the pill, so my tits are a little bigger.
CAV: I'm sure your fans will be glad to hear that!
SERENA: They've seen me with big tits. I did one film, Sweetcakes, when I was pregnant, and I had enormous bosoms. I remember it very clearly, because I had to wear this tight Southern Belle outfit at a fitting. It was a dank, dirty, dusty, musty kind of place, with really old clothes that had been sitting around forever. All the clothes smelled, and there was no ventilation. Then they stuck me in this little dressing room with a corset. There I was, quite along the way with my pregnancy. You could see my tummy, but my tits looked great! They started tying on the corset and I fainted. That was a little scary.
CAV: I wonder if this is the same story I had heard about one time.
SERENA: There's another story about me being pregnant and shooting.
CAV: Well, I heard that you had posed for pictures very pregnant and tied up. Does that sound familiar?
SERENA: (pause) Hmmmmmm, I don't remember. I wouldn't put it past me.
CAV: I have not actually seen that; I'd heard it.
SERENA: Well, one thing I did do was a lot of wrestling in shorts and loops. I really enjoyed it because I'm a dancer and I wrestled girls of my own weight and height. So, basically we were well matched. And it was fun too, like a kid wrestling with your best friend. So I did a bunch of these little films, and I had quite a reputation because I was really the champ. In fact, Michael, my husband, is always telling people that I was the wrestling champ of Glendale High - which wasn't really true. It was ore like I was the wrestling champ of...
CAV: Porndale High?
SERENA: Right! But usually we'd wear bikinis. It was just a question of the contact that made it exciting.
CAV: Not quite like schoolgirls, huh?
SERENA: Well, it's not like we'd eat each other out or anything like that. It was really wrestling. But I did do one while I was pregnant. The producer didn't know I was pregnant until halfway through it, because I was having to rest a lot more than usual. "What's wrong with you," he said. "You're not your usual self." "No, no," I said, "I'm fine. I feel real good and strong. I'm just pregnant!" And he just about flipped. He didn't want me to do it at all. But I took real good care of myself in an active way. I danced six days a week for seen hours a night for the last three months, doing a gig in a private night club where I stripped. It was actually the bouncer at the nightclub who told me I was pregnant. I fainted on stage one night and I thought, "Gee, I'd better cut down on the drinking." But he brought me backstage and I said, "Gee - I don't know what's wrong with me." And he said, "I do - look at your tits!" And I said, "Yeah, they're finally filling out."
CAV: But you were pregnant. How long ago was that?
SERENA: Six years ago.
CAV: So what happened to your kid?
SERENA: Oh, she basically got kidnapped by my first husband. I tried to rescue her and got shot in the side. I have legal custody of her, but he's really holed up in the back woods. He's got the guns and I really can't get her out. It's a drag - it's really my only failure. I've really tried. I've been to court, spent thousands of dollars on lawyers.
CAV: That's absolutely horrendous!
SERENA: Yeah, it is. But, I'm still a mom, because I have kids from my new marriage that I live with every day, and cook their meals and clean up after them. We have fun together.
CAV: So how long have you been married now?
SERENA: About three years.
CAV: Does your quitting the business have anything to do with your husband's attitude? Is this your own decision, a joint decision, or what?
SERENA: Well, I was getting very burned out, very bored with it. It just got to be the old in and out, and it wasn't providing me with the creativity I needed. The scripts all started to look the same. I had worked with - fucked with, everybody. And they just keep changing slightly.
CAV: Changing cocks. The scripts are the same, but the cocks are different?
SERENA: No, not really. Once you're around a while there are certain stars who always end up working together in movies. I wasn't getting what I wanted out of it. The sex was OK, but it only went so far. So I was really looking for a way out, but I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. I guess Michael provided me the opportunity to get into the art world, where I wanted to be. I needed to escape. We went out and lived on an eight acre ranch, with horses and a garden, and just laid in the sun for a year.
CAV: So what are you doing now?
SERENA: Well, after that ranch episode we moved into San Francisco, and we had a city house. Then, I became my usual social animal self. I become like that whenever I'm in the city. We had a three story Victorian mansion, and I got punk rockers over every few days to help me clean.
CAV: Invite them over to my house while you're at it.
SERENA: Yeah, that was fun. We had about three hundred people over to dinner every week.
CAV: That must have put a dent in your grocery money.
SERENA: Oh boy! I had about four hundred and fifty people at my birthday party - that was two years ago. Then, we had about thirty people upstairs for the "party party".
CAV: Oh, what sort of party was that?
SERENA: Well, that was all the champagne, the girls, the orgy, the fun till all hours.
CAV: So, do you still get into sexual hijinks?
SERENA: Oh yeah, all the time. My old man loves me because he thinks that I'm just as much of a pervert as he is, in a fun way. We have a lot of fun together. We only have love for each other, but he's very bisexual, like me. He and I, when we lived at the city house were producing probably the largest art exhibit ever held in America of a particular type of art. It's very visionary. We got a lot of press and it was written up in all the art journals. We put together this show of fifty different artists, and it went on for a month. that was the first show I had my tapestries in, and I sold a couple right off. We had bands there and I danced Isadora Duncan style. I was able to use my sexiness in a real artistic fashion.
CAV: That sounds wonderful. Would you ever do an X-rated film again - I mean a porn film? Could anything induce you?
SERENA: Last year, I did make a few films. They got me out of hiding. Actually, I had been real active. I did a couple of weeks dancing at the O'Farrell Theater, so I worked on and off, every couple of months on stage, because it really kept me in shape - I love it and I had fun. They got me out of hiding by offering me two transvestites which I'd never done on film. I've ha d a lot of them, and they've always fascinated me. I turned my first husband into one.
SERENA: Yeah, I ended up doing his make-up for him.
CAV: Now are you talking about transvestites, or transsexuals?
SERENA: Just a transvestite - a man dressed up like a woman. So, they got me out of hiding by making me that offer, and I made a couple of films. Naturally, I got a lot of offers after that. But what happened was, I ended up in the hospital with an I.V. in my arm for two months, and physically, it was just impossible to push myself anymore. I mean, even my old man and I have to be very cautious about my condition, because otherwise I'm going to end up with a hysterectomy. So that's the big big reason, personally, that I can't fuck eighteen guys, because I don't know whether or not they'd be aware enough not to hurt me. So that's the real reason.
What I started to say before was that when we had the city house, and we were having all these fabulous orgies with punk rock bands, and putting this show together. It was just wild. It was really the bohemian trip. Anyway, you asked me about my husband and about his attitude. Well, when we had the art show, seventeen of his wives showed up.
CAV: You're pulling my leg, aw c'mon!
SERENA: First, there was a Dutch countess. There was a snake dancer, and a pair of twins. There was the ex-wife who is the mother of Michael's kids, and all this other assortment. They came in huge amounts. His trip was worrying about me, because he had never lived with less than three or four or five women.
CAV: At one time?
SERENA: At one time, yeah.
CAV: And he was legally married to each of these women?
SERENA: Well, to a few of them. But all the others still called themselves his wives anyway. But in his mind, he considers me the first wife and the last wife he'll ever have.
CAV: Good grief!
SERENA: So that's kind of a run down on Michael.
CAV: You sound like you're well matched.
SERENA: Yeah, yeah. We've both had a lot of experiences.
CAV: You know, speaking of rumors that have been going around, I told you about the rumors about your posing for pictures tied up and pregnant. Another prevalent rumor that has been going around, which you can squelch or whatever, is that you were in very bad shape - physically - a year or two ago. That you were on your way out. That you were a flickering, extinguishing flame.
SERENA: Yeah, that is true. When I made those films, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.
CAV: You mean, when you filmed Inspirations?
SERENA: I don't know what the titles was of that one, but the other was Serena Vs. Mai Lin. There are a couple I made that are just coming out now. I think maybe Afternoon Delight. Anyway, I had three different doctors, three gynecologists, a G.P., and one of the hospital doctors. All of them told my husband that I was going to die. And if I didn't die, they would have to clean me out completely and I'd have to shit out of a tube in my side. There was a huge canteloupe size tumor behind my womb. It was brought on, not by too much sex exactly, but by too many infections. It had been growing in there for years. I spent two months in the hospital, and then we went to Mexico. I laid around in the sun and the sand, and ate good food for another couple of months. I just recuperated slowly.
CAV: Now do you feel one hundred percent better?
SERENA: I'm cautious, but I'm healthy, and I feel real good. My energy is real good too. I still take medication and stuff, almost a year later. But actually, I've never felt better. I'm glad to be alive!
CAV: That was a real horror story.
SERENA: It's also a lesson to those who get V.D. and don't take care of it.
CAV: So, what do you guys do when you're in New York?
SERENA: Oh, I've always loved New York. I lived there for a couple of years with Jamie, and he was a great host because he's a native. I used to disco all night! Let's see, what are some of my New York stories. I used to love to go to Barnum's on 45th Street. It's a a transvestite bar. Back to the transvestites! They intrigue me, they're fabulous.
CAV: What about transexuals?
SERENA: I think they've lost something. I think it's probably necessary for some people's psychology to actually do the cross over.
CAV: That doesn't really do it for you?
SERENA: I don't think it would. I've never really known one in bed.
CAV: Do you get into that yourself?
SERENA: Into what?
CAV: Transvestitism. Cross dressing, whatever.
SERENA: Well, um, yeah. I had my hair short for a while, and I got a nice suit. I did look pretty butch. I do like ladies, and I can be butch sometimes, but it's not my usual attitude.
CAV: What is your usual attitude?
SERENA: Being strong, but feminine: being liberated, but being domestic. A little bit of a paradox.
CAV: That paradox is what makes it interesting. It's like what you were saying about preferring transvestites to transexuals, because a transvestite is less exclusive and more open to anything.
SERENA: Well, it's like - everything good about a woman, but with a cock. You get the best of both worlds. Although they're usually so into being women that they don't usually fuck like men.
CAV: Do you get off watching?
SERENA: I'm very much of a voyeur. In fact, on the sets of my movies, I always tried to watch other people's scenes. And I'd knit.
CAV: (laughter) Who are you, Madame Defarge?
SERENA: I'm always the mom on the set because I crochet and bring cookies.
CAV: Cookies, crocheting and voyeurism.
SERENA: Yeah, there's another paradox there.
CAV: Did you get turned on doing your sex scenes?
SERENA: Yeah, I did. I got off.
CAV: What was your hottest scene, your hottest film?
SERENA: Gee, I've had so many wonderful experiences. The only thing that can really blow it is bad breath, or a bad attitude. But when you get somebody that you hit it of with, it's always fun, and you just fuck and fuck and fuck in between the takes. I've had that happen a lot of times.
CAV: That sounds wonderful. Do you still have days like that off camera?
SERENA: Yeah. By the way, I'm sure that Barnum's is still there, if anyone wants to go. Behind the dance floor, there's a wall, a facade - and I used to go behind there and get fucked.
CAV: By whom?
SERENA: By whoever I was dancing with that wanted to fuck. I used to take Puerto Rican dudes back there all the time.
CAV: Were you partial to them?
SERENA: They're unusual for me. In Sausalito, we don't have a heavy Puerto Rican population.
CAV: Oh, do you like older Puerto Ricans?
SERENA: No, but the young guys are sort of sweet.
CAV: Yes, I know. I'm partial to them myself.
SERENA: Yes, they're darling. They're really great on the dance floor, and they get really hot and sweaty. One hot blooded guy showed me the fake wall. There's a space back there about two feet wide, and you can go back there while the music is blaring and fuck. It's really fun. Of course, it's leaning up against a wall.
CAV: So that element of danger turns you on?
SERENA: Oh, yeah. I love that. I used to give cab drivers blow jobs for a tip in New York. New York is great, because you can pull all sorts of weird shit. Jamie used to sit up in the window. He had a place on 45th St. right across from the theater. And across the street from us were Puerto Rican transvestite hookers.
CAV: So you and Jamie fit in just perfectly. Of course, we should tell our readers who we're talking about.
SERENA: Jamie Gillis, of course.
CAV: Anyone who didn't know we were talking about Jamie Gillis must live in an igloo, or worse still, the midwest.
SERENA: They should be whipped and fucked by twelve people while Jamie jerks off. (laughter) You know, Jamie and I would watch Puerto Rican transvestite hookers, because they would sit right on top of our car. But sometimes I'd get really sleazed out, and lean against the columns of the theater, and let men approach me. Jamie would be sitting in the room, staring at me through binoculars. (more laughter) There was a little alcove behind the theater where I could give them blow-jobs, and make ten bucks or so.
CAV: Oh great - it's always great to make a few bucks.
SERENA: This was all for Jamie's benefit, because I knew he liked to watch. It was kind of a turn on to know that my roommate - lover was up there watching.
CAV: So, that's the story here. Your affair with Jamie Gillis is legendary. I'd say it was the most celebrated porn romance.
SERENA: We started seeing each other in New York, but then I became New Yorked out, and we moved back to San Francisco. But he was a New Yorker and didn't like it here. I became more and more of my California girl self, which is a little bit of a flower child, a lot more liberated, and not as much under his S&M thumb. So we just grew apart. It was fine, though. I got him a girl that he could beat up, and she loved it. We had separate bedrooms, but we fucked every once in a while. He wanted to go back to New York, and I wanted to stay in California.
CAV: How long were you together?
SERENA: About three years.
CAV: Were you in love?
SERENA: Well, I loved him dearly, but I wasn't in love with him. He taught me a lot of things.
CAV: Like what?
SERENA: Well... to like a lot of things I never liked before. He was a real pervert.
CAV: Before that time, you weren't into that scene? What is that scene?
SERENA: Well, that scene involves lots of role playing. It helped me become a good actress, because it was always a joy to work with him. He lives in a constant state of role play, particularly in his sex life, which takes up a large part of his day.
CAV: That's Jamie's reputation, that apart from sex, he has no life.
SERENA: Yeah, he's a totally sensuous creature; the only thing that is as prevalent as sex is eating.
CAV: Really? I thought you were going to say horse racing!
SERENA: Well, eating, horse racing, and sex. And that's about it with Jamie. No, that's not true. He loves the theater. He used to take me to Carnegie Hall. But we'd fuck at Carnegie Hall. We'd go up on top where the Queen sits in that little dressing room where everyone hangs their coats. We did it up there, listening to Brahms.
CAV: What brought you together. How did you meet?
SERENA: I came to New York to do a theater gig on 8th Avenue and 42nd Street.
CAV: That's right around the corner from our posh, luxurious offices!
SERENA: Anyway, I came for a week, and stayed eight months. Jamie was a legend to me because of Misty Beethoven. He came to see me one night and his back really hurt. But he came anyway to meet me. I was really charged up with being in New York for the first time, and high from being on stage all day. So I decided that I wanted to meet Radley Metzger real quick, and Jamie was the best connection. So I gave him a back rub. I had been told that he was a real S&M freak. I had one of those wire hair brushes in my dressing room, and I gave him a back rub by whipping his back with the wire brush. He felt very refreshed. He took me home. I saved my hotel bill and I stayed. I really wanted to get to know New York, and I loved it. We stayed up all night and slept all day for months, except during shootings and then sometimes you work day and night anyway.
CAV: So, did you get into a really heavy S&M scene with him?
SERENA: Yeah, we explored it. It was heavy in New York. It fizzled down by the time it got to California a year later.
CAV: It's awfully hard to sustain something of that intensity.
SERENA: Well, he has a great imagination, but it's all kind of one track.
CAV: Were you submissive?
SERENA: I was at first, because I didn't know what else to do. But he taught me the basics and then switched the roles around. Then I became a real bitch - it was wonderful. I was wearing the boots, and using whips on him. I used to stroll him in Central Park on a dog collar. The one thing he can't stand, even though he does this in films which play to millions of people, is that he really doesn't like to be humiliated in public. So, I do it at any opportunity I'd get. Not in a bitchy wife role, but by putting him on a collar and walking him around Central Park.
CAV: And he couldn't say no?
SERENA: To me? Not to me. I became very good at it.
CAV: What was the most dastardly thing you ever did to him?
SERENA: The thing that he liked the best which was having it done the worst way possible, whatever it was.
CAV: Do any scenes stand out in your mind?
SERENA: He made me fuck a midget once, which was humiliating for me.
CAV: Was that in that Sveltana movie?
SERENA: Yeah, I think so. Ultraflesh. And I didn't want to do it. No I wasn't supposed to do it, it wasn't in the script. I had nothing against the midget, he was a sweet guy, but he was just as perverted as Jamie.
CAV: Oh, lord!
SERENA: It was just very unappetizing for me, and Jamie made me do it and like it. It was pretty humiliating for me.
CAV: Was he there during the shoot?
SERENA: Oh yeah. Forcing me to do it. It must have been that movie, or the movie where Jamie played Dracula. I thought he was brilliant in that. It never really went anywhere because it was poorly edited. I thought he was pretty good. He sure as fuck scared me. I worked with him all week, and our only sex scene was the last scene of the last day. I hadn't really seen him with his teeth in until we did our scene, and I was actually terrified. I couldn't talk myself out of it.
CAV: Do you feel that when you get that heavily involved in an exclusive scene with somebody, whether it be "me Tarzan, you Jane," or "me husband, you wife," it precludes the possibility of the relationship growing? Could that be why your relationship fizzled out when you hit California?
SERENA: Definitely yes. It becomes fantacism and it can grow. You can only switch roles back and forth, but you can't change roles. You see, I wasn't in love with Jamie, ever. It was wonderful, it was a trip, and it was fun. But I was still looking for something else - which I have now. With Michael, our life together grows and grows. There's always some new wonderful things. We're so wonderfully matched that it doesn't matter what happens. We do it together, and there's a lot of room to grow. I guess our goals and morals are every much connected together.
CAV: Are you still friends?
SERENA: We don't see each other much. I feel he's very much in the past in one way, and it's kind of melancholy. I like that. I think he'd like that. WE don't really have much in common, because we don't fuck anymore.
CAV: Would you fuck him? Would Michael fuck him? Would you and Michael both fuck him?
SERENA: I was going to say, not unless my husband was turned on to him, and he's not really Michael's type.
CAV: Are you two only into "swinging"? Er- I hate that word.
SERENA: Oh, me too.
CAV: Let me change that. Do you only fuck together?
SERENA: Yeah, I don't have any afternoon affairs or anything except for my vibrator, or a candlestick.
CAV: Why is that?
SERENA: I'm just not interested. I do have to be careful. Michael and I don't just fuck, we really make love. I hadn't had that in so long. I've always just fucked. I have love now, and it's different. But we do like to have fun.
CAV: Do you have a pact not to have outside relationships?
SERENA: Yeah, Michael is very protective and jealous, but in a good way. I like it.
CAV: Yeah, but if you met a guy down at the grocery, and you came home and said, "Hey, I met this guy down at the 7-Eleven who was really hot, and I invited him back this afternoon for a hot fuck," would he get really upset?
SERENA: Oh, I just love those boys at the 7-Eleven. I get off on them, and I think they're cute, but I don't necessarily have to bring them home and fuck them. I can bring home the idea that I was turned on. But if the boy is a little bit loose and likes men too, then that's even better.
CAV: Do people recognize who you are?
SERENA: Like I said, I get stopped at the 7-Eleven.
CAV: Oh, you get stopped!
SERENA: Oh, god! I get mobbed in there by women, policemen. It's really funny.
CAV: Do they know who you are, or do they say, "Who are you? You look awfully familiar."
SERENA: That happens occasionally. Usually I get "Aren't you... aren't you... uh, uh, uh..."
CAV: "Aren't you Helen Hayes?"
SERENA: Usually they'll say, "Serena, I can't believe it's you. You're real! You're 3-D." My neighbors must know, too. They're a really charming gay couple, two sweet ladies, and we talk over the fence to them a lot. But I've ben doing a lot of photography in the afternoon, so I'm out there on the picnic table with foot long dildos - and I'm pretty exposed to the rest of the neighborhood. But they're pretty cool, they probably just get off on it.
CAV: Yeah, I'm sure it's their idea of a good time. But, other than that, you aren't getting any flak or headaches from the neighbors?
SERENA: Oh, no. Sausalito's pretty hip.
CAV: Gee, we've talked for a long time. I guess we're just about ready to wrap.
SERENA: Before we go, I have something to tell your New York readers that they'll appreciate. Guess what I'm doing right now?
CAV: Hmm, what?
SERENA: Making bagels! Rye bagels with poppy seeds. The dough is rising at this very moment.
CAV: So you're really domesticated. This isn't just somebody's kinky fantasy.
SERENA: When I lived with Jamie, we had slaves and cooks.
CAV: You're kidding! Really?
SERENA: Michael also has people that work for him, but whether we will call those people slaves or not, I don't know. Michael has a lot of these, because strong personalities, or famous people, tend to pick up a lot of people who want to do everything for you. So, we also have people to clean the house and wash the windows and do whatever we want done.
CAV: In return for what?
SERENA: Oh, sometimes just a good meal, or being near us, whatever. Anyway, the point is that when I was with Jamie, I didn't have to cook, and he, being a gourmet, went out to dinner a lot. So I never learned how to cook until I met Michael. Then, I went through the "Yuuck - what is this" phase. Teenage kid knocks cooking school, and I learned real fast. Baking is pretty much my forte, baking and making soups. Today I'm trying bagels.
CAV: I must really commend you. Now, when someone asks me, "What's cooking with Serena," I'll truly be qualified to answer.
(January 1983)
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